Anadolu Arkeolojisi Tartisma Listesi Arsivi: Re: [Anadolu

From: Mer C Less <mercless_at_....>
Date: Thu 28 Apr 2005 - 02:19:51 EEST

Bence Feigl’s son yada striking satirlarini tekrar tekrar okumakta yarar var..ve benimde mailimde belirttigim gibi kulturel sureklilik konusunu dusunerek okumak sanirim biraz daha yararli olabilir..

On 4/28/05 7:19 PM, "Anadolu_Arkeolojisi@yahoogroups.com" <Anadolu_Arkeolojisi@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> 
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
> 
> Topics in this digest:
> 
>       1. Re: Çatalda Türkler
>            From: Mer C Less <mercless@gmail.com>
>       2. Re: Re: Çatalda Türkler
>            From: Faruk Demirci <farukdemirci@yahoo.com>
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 1       
>    Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:53:31 +0300
>    From: Mer C Less <mercless@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Çatalda Türkler
> 
> Bir Ã§atal okuyucusu ve izleyicisi olarak; Catalhoyuk kazilari bilindigi gibi
> iki aÅ�amada Ã§alÄ±Å�malarÄ± yÃ¼rÃ¼tÃ¼len bir kazÄ± yeri olup, orta
> anadoluâ��da yer
> almaktadÄ±r. Burada ortaya Ã§Ä±karÄ±lan kÃ¼ltÃ¼rÃ¼n hem neolitik hemde
> kalkolitik
> dÃ¶nemlere ait olduÄ�u da Ã¶teden beri bilinmektedir. Yeni dÃ¶nem kazÄ±larÄ±
> bu
> duruma biraz daha geniÅ� bir perspektiften bakarak yerleÅ�meyi daha iyi
> anlamayÄ± amaÃ§lamaktadÄ±r. Bu belirtilen TÃ¼rkler ve Ã�atalhÃ¶yÃ¼k konusuna
> aydÄ±nlÄ±k getirecek bir buluntudan ve bu konuya iliÅ�kin her hangi bir yazÄ±
> yerleÅ�mede Ã§alÄ±Å�an arkeologlar ve uzmanlarca ileri sÃ¼rÃ¼lmedi henÃ¼z.
> Buna
> benzer bir tezin ortaya atÄ±lmasÄ± ve bunun da doÄ�rulanmasÄ± iÃ§in bir Ã§ok
> farklÄ± bilim dalÄ±nÄ±n birlikte Ã§alÄ±Å�masÄ±na (hiÃ§ deÄ�ilse genetikÃ§i
> ordusu) ve
> sanÄ±rÄ±m uzun yÄ±llara ihtiyaÃ§ olacaktÄ±r. KaldÄ± ki bÃ¶yle bir tez de Ã¶nce
> MANTIKSAL lÄ±k aÃ§Ä±sÄ±ndan ve KRONOLOJÄ°K aÃ§Ä±dan
> sorgulanmalÄ±dÄ±r..KÃ¼ltÃ¼rel
> sÃ¼rekliliÄ�in ne olduÄ�unu iyi kavramak gerekir..aksi takdirde buna benzer
> tezlere rastlamak her geÃ§en gÃ¼n artabilir...
> 
> Ã§atalhÃ¶yÃ¼k Ã§alÄ±Å�malarÄ± teorik arkeoloji modellerinden bir veya bir
> kaÃ§Ä±na
> uygun veya paralel gidiyor olabilir ama projenin amacÄ± Ä±rk sorununa Ã§Ã¶zÃ¼m
> getirmek olduÄ�unu, Ã¶zellikle tÃ¼rklerin kÃ¶kenini araÅ�tÄ±rmak olduÄ�unu
> hiÃ§
> sanmÄ±yorum. Bununla birlikte doÄ�ru olan kÄ±sÄ±m Å�udur:
> Evet..Ã�atalhÃ¶yÃ¼kte
> tÃ¼rkler var..ve diÄ�er arkeolog meslaktaÅ�larÄ± ile birlikte
> Ã§alÄ±Å�malarÄ±na
> devam ediyorlar..
> 
> 
> On 4/25/05 10:25 PM, "Anadolu_Arkeolojisi@yahoogroups.com"
> <Anadolu_Arkeolojisi@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>

>> >
>> >
>> > There are 3 messages in this issue.
>> >
>> > Topics in this digest:
>> >
>> > 1. Son paragrafa DIKKAT---Striking Remarks By Erich Feigl
>> > From: Kamil Kartal <allingus2001@yahoo.com>
>> > 2. Son paragrafa DIKKAT---Striking Remarks By Erich Feigl
>> > From: Kamil Kartal <allingus2001@yahoo.com>
>> > 3. Re: CATALHOYUK ve TURKLER
>> > From: "Kamil KARTAL" <allingus2001@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________________________________________________
>> > ________________________________________________________________________
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
>> > From: Kamil Kartal <allingus2001@yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Son paragrafa DIKKAT---Striking Remarks By Erich Feigl
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Striking Remarks By Erich FeiglPublished: 4/22/2005
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > BY TUFAN TURENC
>> > HURRIYET- A panel on ï¿½Turkish-Armenian Relations and Historical Factsï¿½

>> was

>> > held earlier this week at Istanbul Technical University (ITU). Among the
>> > speakers at the panel was well-known Austrian author and documentary

>> filmmaker

>> > Professor Erich Feigl, who made various incisive remarks during his speech.
>> > Feigl is an expert on Middle Eastern, Central Asian and American cultures

>> and

>> > religions. He has produced several documentaries which have attracted
>> > worldwide attention. He became acquainted with the events of 1915 while

>> doing

>> > historical research, and he quickly developed an interest in the issue.
>> > Meanwhile, Turkish AttachÃ© for Labor and Social Affairs in Vienna Erdogan
>> > Ozen, a close friend of his, was murdered by the terrorist Armenian Secret
>> > Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) in 1984. Ozenï¿½s murder

>> affected him

>> > so much that he wrote a book on Armenian terror called ï¿½A Myth of

>> Terror.ï¿½

>> > In his speech, Feigl lamented that Turkey has been unable to counter the
>> > psychological war waged by the Armenians. Feigl said that the total number

>> of

>> > Armenians who lived under Ottoman rule was 1.7 million, and only 700,000 of
>> > them were sent away by the Ottomans. Therefore, their assertion that 1.5
>> > million Armenians were killed is nonsensical.
>> > Feigl also presented a new document, in which Boghos Nubar, leader of the
>> > Armenians in exile early in the last centrury, admits that the Armenians

>> took

>> > sides with the enemy during the war. ï¿½Itï¿½s most fortunate that I could
>> > discover this document before the Armenians could find and destroy it,ï¿½

>> Feigl

>> > said. ï¿½Because they have successfully destroyed almost every document

>> against

>> > them.ï¿½
>> > Feigl also urged that Turkey not agree to discuss their claims, let alone
>> > recognize them. ï¿½If you recognize their claims or even agree to discuss

>> the

>> > issue with them, next they will demand your money and land. You should

>> never

>> was

>> > held earlier this week at Istanbul Technical University (ITU). Among the
>> > speakers at the panel was well-known Austrian author and documentary

>> filmmaker

>> > Professor Erich Feigl, who made various incisive remarks during his speech.
>> > Feigl is an expert on Middle Eastern, Central Asian and American cultures

>> and

>> > religions. He has produced several documentaries which have attracted
>> > worldwide attention. He became acquainted with the events of 1915 while

>> doing

>> affected him

>> > so much that he wrote a book on Armenian terror called ï¿½A Myth of

>> Terror.ï¿½

>> > In his speech, Feigl lamented that Turkey has been unable to counter the
>> > psychological war waged by the Armenians. Feigl said that the total number

>> of

>> took

>> > sides with the enemy during the war. ï¿½Itï¿½s most fortunate that I could
>> > discover this document before the Armenians could find and destroy it,ï¿½

>> Feigl

>> > said. ï¿½Because they have successfully destroyed almost every document

>> against

>> > them.ï¿½
>> > Feigl also urged that Turkey not agree to discuss their claims, let alone
>> > recognize them. ï¿½If you recognize their claims or even agree to discuss

>> the

>> > issue with them, next they will demand your money and land. You should

>> never

>> > ever do that,ï¿½ he said.
>> > Feigl ended his speech with a striking statement: ï¿½This land is yours. >>
You
>> > didnï¿½t settle in Anatolia after the Battle of Malazgirt. Archeological
>> > findings at Catalhoyuk prove that you have been here for more than 10,000
>> > yearsï¿½.
>> >
>> >
>> > http://turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=40719
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >
>> > [This message contained attachments]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________________________________________________
>> > ________________________________________________________________________
>> >
>> > Message: 3
>> > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:16:13 -0000
>> > From: "Kamil KARTAL" <allingus2001@yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Re: CATALHOYUK ve TURKLER
>> >
>> >
>> > Merhaba,
>> >
>> > Bunu bir TÃ¼rk sÃ¶ylediginde, yerli-yabanci genel tepkime, safsata ve
>> > kuruntular Ã¼zerinde irkÃ§ilik yaptigimiz seklinde oluyor. Ancak
>> > TÃ¼rklere bakisi dÃ¼nyaca meshur Avusturyalilar arasindan bir
>> > arkeoloji projesÃ¶rÃ¼ Ã§ikip bunu sÃ¶yledigi vakit, orada bir kez daha
>> > dÃ¼sÃ¼nmek gerekiyor gerÃ§egin hangisi oldugunu.
>> >
>> > Ã�ATALHOYUK kazilarindan uzman veya deneyimli olan bir bÃ¼yÃ¼gÃ¼mÃ¼z,
>> > lÃ¼tfedip bize aÃ§iklayabilir mi acaba:
>> >
>> > TÃ¼rklerin 10 bin yildan daha eskisinden beri Anadolu'da olduklarini
>> > ve -- bundan Ã¶ncesiyle ilgili hiÃ§bir uygarlik verisi bulunmadigi
>> > iÃ§in olsa gerek-- Anadolu'nun ilk ve asil sahiplerinin (biz) TÃ¼rkler
>> > oldugu "arkeolojik yorumunu" Ã�atalhÃ¶yÃ¼k'e dayandirabilmek iÃ§in,
>> > burada, yani CATALHOYUK'te ne veya neler bulunmus olmalidir?
>> > Arkeolojinin gizledigi birseyler mi var?
>> >
>> > Sorumua bir aÃ§iklik getirmek iÃ§in eklemek istiyorum...
>> >
>> > CATALHOYUK'Ã¼n, hakim ideolojik ve doktrinel yÃ¼klerden ari bir
>> > degerlendirmesi yapilsa, elde edilecek sonuÃ§ siradan bir insani
>> > TURKLUKLE ilgili neye gÃ¶tÃ¼rebilir?
>> >
>> > Yanit verme ve bilgiyi "paylasma" nezaketi gÃ¶steren herkese simdiden
>> > gÃ¶nÃ¼lden tesekkÃ¼r ederim.
>> >
>> > Kamil Kartal
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In Anadolu_Arkeolojisi@yahoogroups.com, Kamil Kartal
>> > <allingus2001@y...> wrote:

>>>> >> >  
>>>> >> >  
>>>> >> > Striking Remarks By Erich FeiglPublished: 4/22/2005
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> >  
>>>> >> > BY TUFAN TURENC
>>>> >> > HURRIYET- A panel on ï¿½Turkish-Armenian Relations and Historical

>> > Factsï¿½ was held earlier this week at Istanbul Technical University
>> > (ITU). Among the speakers at the panel was well-known Austrian
>> > author and documentary filmmaker Professor Erich Feigl, who made
>> > various incisive remarks during his speech.

>>>> >> > Feigl is an expert on Middle Eastern, Central Asian and American

>> > cultures and religions. He has produced several documentaries which
>> > have attracted worldwide attention. He became acquainted with the
>> > events of 1915 while doing historical research, and he quickly
>> > developed an interest in the issue. Meanwhile, Turkish AttachÃ© for
>> > Labor and Social Affairs in Vienna Erdogan Ozen, a close friend of
>> > his, was murdered by the terrorist Armenian Secret Army for the
>> > Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) in 1984. Ozenï¿½s murder affected him so
>> > much that he wrote a book on Armenian terror called ï¿½A Myth of
>> > Terror.ï¿½

>>>> >> > In his speech, Feigl lamented that Turkey has been unable to

>> > counter the psychological war waged by the Armenians. Feigl said
>> > that the total number of Armenians who lived under Ottoman rule was
>> > 1.7 million, and only 700,000 of them were sent away by the
>> > Ottomans. Therefore, their assertion that 1.5 million Armenians were
>> > killed is nonsensical.

>>>> >> > Feigl also presented a new document, in which Boghos Nubar, leader

>> > of the Armenians in exile early in the last centrury, admits that
>> > the Armenians took sides with the enemy during the war. ï¿½Itï¿½s most
>> > fortunate that I could discover this document before the Armenians
>> > could find and destroy it,ï¿½ Feigl said. ï¿½Because they have
>> > successfully destroyed almost every document against them.ï¿½

>>>> >> > Feigl also urged that Turkey not agree to discuss their claims,

>> > let alone recognize them. ï¿½If you recognize their claims or even
>> > agree to discuss the issue with them, next they will demand your
>> > money and land. You should never ever do that,ï¿½ he said.

>>>> >> > Feigl ended his speech with a striking statement: ï¿½This land is

>> > yours. You didnï¿½t settle in Anatolia after the Battle of Malazgirt.
>> > Archeological findings at Catalhoyuk prove that you have been here
>> > for more than 10,000 yearsï¿½.

>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > http://turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=40719
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > __________________________________________________
>>>> >> > Do You Yahoo!?
>>>> >> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>>> >> > http://mail.yahoo.com

>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________________________________________________
>> > ________________________________________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > [Anadolu_Arkeolojisi] bilgi toplulugu, allingus Ã�eviri Hizmetlerinin
>> > kÃ¼ltÃ¼r hizmetlerinden biridir.
>> >
>> > 19 Ocak 2003. allingus2001@yahoo.com; kkartal@alumni.bilkent.edu.tr
>> >
>> > TURKÃ�E KORUNACAK!
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >

> 
> 
> 
> 
> [This message contained attachments]
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 2       
>    Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:02:18 -0700 (PDT)
>    From: Faruk Demirci <farukdemirci@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: Çatalda Türkler
> 
>   Catalhöyük' de Türkler olsa nolur, İtalyanlar olsa
> nolur, keltler olsa nolur britonlar olsa nolur,
> araplar olsa nolur, samiler olsa nolur, olmasa ne
> olur? Hala bu sacmalık devam mı ediyor burada ya?
> --- Mer C Less <mercless@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> > Bir Ã§atal okuyucusu ve izleyicisi olarak;
>> > Catalhoyuk kazilari bilindigi gibi
>> > iki aÅ�amada Ã§alÄ±Å�malarÄ± yÃ¼rÃ¼tÃ¼len bir kazÄ±
>> > yeri olup, orta anadoluâ��da yer
>> > almaktadÄ±r. Burada ortaya Ã§Ä±karÄ±lan kÃ¼ltÃ¼rÃ¼n
>> > hem neolitik hemde kalkolitik
>> > dÃ¶nemlere ait olduÄ�u da Ã¶teden beri
>> > bilinmektedir. Yeni dÃ¶nem kazÄ±larÄ± bu
>> > duruma biraz daha geniÅ� bir perspektiften bakarak
>> > yerleÅ�meyi daha iyi
>> > anlamayÄ± amaÃ§lamaktadÄ±r. Bu belirtilen TÃ¼rkler
>> > ve Ã�atalhÃ¶yÃ¼k konusuna
>> > aydÄ±nlÄ±k getirecek bir buluntudan ve bu konuya
>> > iliÅ�kin her hangi bir yazÄ±
>> > yerleÅ�mede Ã§alÄ±Å�an arkeologlar ve uzmanlarca
>> > ileri sÃ¼rÃ¼lmedi henÃ¼z. Buna
>> > benzer bir tezin ortaya atÄ±lmasÄ± ve bunun da
>> > doÄ�rulanmasÄ± iÃ§in bir Ã§ok
>> > farklÄ± bilim dalÄ±nÄ±n birlikte Ã§alÄ±Å�masÄ±na
>> > (hiÃ§ deÄ�ilse genetikÃ§i ordusu) ve
>> > sanÄ±rÄ±m uzun yÄ±llara ihtiyaÃ§ olacaktÄ±r. KaldÄ±
>> > ki bÃ¶yle bir tez de Ã¶nce
>> > MANTIKSAL lÄ±k aÃ§Ä±sÄ±ndan ve KRONOLOJÄ°K aÃ§Ä±dan
>> > sorgulanmalÄ±dÄ±r..KÃ¼ltÃ¼rel
>> > sÃ¼rekliliÄ�in ne olduÄ�unu iyi kavramak
>> > gerekir..aksi takdirde buna benzer
>> > tezlere rastlamak her geÃ§en gÃ¼n artabilir...
>> >
>> > Ã§atalhÃ¶yÃ¼k Ã§alÄ±Å�malarÄ± teorik arkeoloji
>> > modellerinden bir veya bir kaÃ§Ä±na
>> > uygun veya paralel gidiyor olabilir ama projenin
>> > amacÄ± Ä±rk sorununa Ã§Ã¶zÃ¼m
>> > getirmek olduÄ�unu, Ã¶zellikle tÃ¼rklerin kÃ¶kenini
>> > araÅ�tÄ±rmak olduÄ�unu hiÃ§
>> > sanmÄ±yorum. Bununla birlikte doÄ�ru olan kÄ±sÄ±m
>> > Å�udur: Evet..Ã�atalhÃ¶yÃ¼kte
>> > tÃ¼rkler var..ve diÄ�er arkeolog meslaktaÅ�larÄ± ile
>> > birlikte Ã§alÄ±Å�malarÄ±na
>> > devam ediyorlar..
>> >
>> >
>> > On 4/25/05 10:25 PM,
>> > "Anadolu_Arkeolojisi@yahoogroups.com"
>> > <Anadolu_Arkeolojisi@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> >

>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > There are 3 messages in this issue.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Topics in this digest:
>>> > > 
>>> > >       1. Son paragrafa DIKKAT---Striking Remarks


>> > By Erich Feigl

>>> > >            From: Kamil Kartal


>> > <allingus2001@yahoo.com>

>>> > >       2. Son paragrafa DIKKAT---Striking Remarks


>> > By Erich Feigl

>>> > >            From: Kamil Kartal


>> > <allingus2001@yahoo.com>

>>> > >       3. Re: CATALHOYUK ve TURKLER
>>> > >            From: "Kamil KARTAL"

>> > <allingus2001@yahoo.com>

>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > >
>> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> > >
>> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> > > 
>>> > > Message: 1 
>>> > >    Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
>>> > >    From: Kamil Kartal <allingus2001@yahoo.com>
>>> > > Subject: Son paragrafa DIKKAT---Striking Remarks

>> > By Erich Feigl

>>> > > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > > Striking Remarks By Erich FeiglPublished:

>> > 4/22/2005

>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > >  
>>> > > BY TUFAN TURENC
>>> > > HURRIYET- A panel on ï¿½Turkish-Armenian Relations

>> > and Historical Factsï¿½ was

>>> > > held earlier this week at Istanbul Technical

>> > University (ITU). Among the

>>> > > speakers at the panel was well-known Austrian

>> > author and documentary filmmaker

>>> > > Professor Erich Feigl, who made various incisive

>> > remarks during his speech.

>>> > > Feigl is an expert on Middle Eastern, Central

>> > Asian and American cultures and

>>> > > religions. He has produced several documentaries

>> > which have attracted

>>> > > worldwide attention. He became acquainted with the

>> > events of 1915 while doing

>>> > > historical research, and he quickly developed an

>> > interest in the issue.

>>> > > Meanwhile, Turkish AttachÃ© for Labor and Social

>> > Affairs in Vienna Erdogan

>>> > > Ozen, a close friend of his, was murdered by the

>> > terrorist Armenian Secret

>>> > > Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) in

>> > 1984. Ozenï¿½s murder affected him

>>> > > so much that he wrote a book on Armenian terror

>> > called ï¿½A Myth of Terror.ï¿½

>>> > > In his speech, Feigl lamented that Turkey has been

>> > unable to counter the

>>> > > psychological war waged by the Armenians. Feigl

>> > said that the total number of

>>> > > Armenians who lived under Ottoman rule was 1.7

>> > million, and only 700,000 of

>>> > > them were sent away by the Ottomans. Therefore,

>> > their assertion that 1.5

>>> > > million Armenians were killed is nonsensical.
>>> > > Feigl also presented a new document, in which

>> > Boghos Nubar, leader of the

>>> > > Armenians in exile early in the last centrury,

>> > admits that the Armenians took

>>> > > sides with the enemy during the war. ï¿½Itï¿½s

>> > most fortunate that I could

>>> > > discover this document before the Armenians could

>> > find and destroy it,ï¿½ Feigl

>>> > > said. ï¿½Because they have successfully destroyed

>> > almost every document against

>>> > > them.ï¿½ 
>>> > > Feigl also urged that Turkey not agree to discuss

>> > their claims, let alone

>>> > > recognize them. ï¿½If you recognize their claims

>> > or even agree to discuss the

>>> > > issue with them, next they will demand your money

>> > and land. You should never

>>> > > ever do that,ï¿½ he said.
>>> > > Feigl ended his speech with a striking statement:

>> > ï¿½This land is yours. You

>>> > > didnï¿½t settle in Anatolia after the Battle of

>> > Malazgirt. Archeological

>>> > > findings at Catalhoyuk prove that you have been

>> > here for more than 10,000

>>> > > yearsï¿½.
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > http://turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=40719
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > __________________________________________________
>>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
>>> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam

>> > protection around

>>> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
>>> > > 
>>> > > [This message contained attachments]
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > >
>> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> > >
>> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> > > 
>>> > > Message: 2 
>>> > >    Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
>>> > >    From: Kamil Kartal <allingus2001@yahoo.com>
>>> > > Subject: Son paragrafa DIKKAT---Striking Remarks